Falling between the earlier live band production of the early 1980's, and the upcoming sample era of the late part of the decade, it was a time of great creativity, and Kurtis Mantronik was one of the most influential producers of the era.

His work with his own group Mantronix, and his Sleeping Bag/Fresh Records labelmates left an indelible mark on Hip-Hop. Many of us remember how it felt hearing the intro of "Fresh Is The Word" with its harmonizing on top of the unmistakable Roland TR 808 drum machine. The energy of songs such as "Put That Record Back On", and "Back To The Old School" were the soundtrack to one of Hip-Hop's most dynamic eras.

As they release their new single, 'A Long Time', Kurtis and Just-Ice discuss their past, present and future in an exclusive interview with Rock The Bells.

The Beginning

"I was born in Kingston, Jamaica", Kurtis Mantronik reveals. "No more guessing, I'm Jamaican. My father was an Arab guy, my mother was a Black Jamaican woman, and my heritage goes back to Jamaica. That's where I grew up, climbing coconut trees, picking mangos and all that shit." He says that his mother left the country and moved to the states, and because he wasn't able to accompany her, he went to Canada with his aunt and uncle.

"This is where it gets interesting," he shares. "I grew up on Bob Marley and all the old school reggae, but when I moved to Canada I was 10 or so, and I started to hear Rock and Disco. I got into Rock, Disco and Punk. When I got to New York, everything changed. My cousins lived in Bedstuy, Brooklyn, and I was living on 73rd Street, so I'd take the G train to visit them. I was hearing this music that I didn't understand. It was on these tapes and they were saying things like 'yes yes ya'll, to the beat y'all'.

My cousins explained that this was Starski, Flash, and Grandmaster Caz, and I didn't understand any of this stuff. They invited me to a park jam, and I saw the DJ plugging wires into the lamp post, then I saw them going back and forth on two turntables, and it didn't take me long to get into it. I started looking for break beats, and I took my poor Jamaican uncles stereo apart to try to make some kind of system. I started collecting tapes, and my favorite was the Bronx River tape with Flash where they are chanting 'Zulu Gestapo'. I forgot all about Rock. I forgot about everything. I wanted to be part of this culture. It was so underground."

"My mother used to play a lot of Jamaican music, and this African shit," explained Just-Ice. "I was young and you have no say so in those things when you're young. When I got older I didnt wanna hear any Bob Marley or Jackie Mittoo, only The Jackson 5." It was around 1975 in Hunts Point that Just was first introduced to Hip-Hop.

"I was at my aunt's house and I heard real Hip-Hop, not that Rap shit," he said. "I was living in Fort Greene, but going back and forth to Castle Hill, and the music in Brooklyn didn't appeal to me at all. I didn't like 'Love Is The Message', none of that stuff - I was into 'Apache', 'Catch A Groove', 'Bra' by Cymande, and '7 Minutes of Funk'.

By the time I was 10, I was going to the park with my older cousins, and Afrika Bambaataa was playing. We'd walk to Rosedale, which is Bronxdale, Rosedale Park or Bronxdale projects ,or Monroe projects. We'd go to Soundview where [Afrika] Islam was always playing. It was always right there for us. I grew up in this shit.

When we went to see Herc and Bam play, they would always start with Jamaican music, but when they played music where the beat broke down and it was just drums, no bassline, they didn't have any MC's really. Herc had Timmy Tim and them, but they were only spittin' little lines. Bam had Lisa Lee, and back then even Bam was rhymin' on the mic a little. Even in my video for 'Going Way Back' I had a framed picture of me and Red Alert in front of 123. That was the spot!"

Danceteria

The rapport between Mantronik and Just-Ice reflects the decades long friendship that they share, which all started at New York's famed Danceteria. "We met on the roof at Danceteria, Afrika Islam was playing," says a confident Just-Ice. Kurtis interjects that he remembers meeting Just through Sleeping Bag/Fresh Records co-founder Will Socolov. "I met you first at Danceteria, I was standing right next to you, and didnt even fuckin know it," Just replies.

"You don't remember, you have a bad fuckin' memory. Afrika Islam was playing on the Roof. I was rhyming, and after I finished you asked my name, and if I ever made a record. Then you said that you made 'Fresh Is The Word', and I was like damn, because that record was bangin' at the time, that shit was everywhere. Then you told me to get you a demo. Just-Ice then recalled going with his Human Beatbox, DMX to a studio on Myrtle Avenue in Brooklyn and spending 22 dollars on a demo.

"It sounded like shit. The engineer took our money and told us to 'go ahead'. There was a Linn drum in there, and we didn't know what we were doin. I was just emulating what I heard on records, tapping on the Linn drum. I laid down the lyrics to 'Put That Record Back On', and Kurtis and Will said that was the worst shit they ever heard." "That's where Will comes into the picture, he told me about you, and that's why I went down to Danceteria that night," Kurtis replies. "Long story short, Kurtis said I'll use the lyrics, but let's change the music," Just recalls.

Fresh Is The Word

"I used to work at Downtown Records as the in-store DJ," Kurtis shares. "I wanted to get into Hip-Hop way back when, but I didn't have an MC, and really didn't know where to start. I was making beats at home, and I would bring them to the shop.

My previous MC, MC Tee was a messenger delivery person, and he would come into the shop and buy records every Friday. We got to know each other, and I had made this beat on the Boss Dr. Rhythm DR110. I asked him could he rhyme over it, and he said, 'I don't really rap, I'm a poet'. He came back a week later with some lyrics and we went into a studio with a Tascam 8 track, and MC Tee came in and recorded his vocals, after I put the beat onto tape. We mixed that down to a cassette, and I took it into the shop, and in the back they sold sound systems. I copied the cassette on one of the double cassette machines and cleaned it up, and that tape was my demo.

Will Socolov came in to drop off some records like he did every Friday. He'd drop off 100 or so to sell to the shop. One of the shop's owners, Frankie Redmoss told Will that he needed to check me out, so I gave him a copy of the cassette. He came back a week later and said that his two partners weren't excited about the tape - remember Rap wasn't even on major labels much at the time. Will said that he would finance it, if they weren't interested. He fell in love with the track and put us in INS studio to record it."

The Roland TR 808

"At INS they put a 808 in front of me," Kurtis says. "They asked if I could program it, and I said yeah, lyin' my ass off. I had only seen 808's in the record store, but I was a kid and couldn't afford one. I did understand how the Roland programming system worked, because I had used a 606. I was programming the beat outside in the lounge area with headphones on, and it was sounding good. This was my first time being in a recording studio, and Will asked if I knew how to work everything, and I lied again."

Kurtis says that engineer, John Pappo actually engineered the session, which took two days to mix. Now Will was tasked with taking this professionally recorded demo of this unknown and unproven act to his partners who were clueless about Rap music. "Juggy Gales was the owner of Sleeping Bag Records, and his son Ron, and Will were partners," Kurtis explains. "Juggy and Ron were creating music targeted to college radio, and while Will loved it, Ron and Juggy didn't. Will had a few test pressings made, and he got it to Chuck Chillout first I believe. Then he took it to Red Alert, and then to Roman Ricardo who was playing at the Roxy at the time."

Kurtis explains that he knew Red Alert and Chuck Chillout, just from being a kid listening to the radio, but he was more familiar with Roman, because he would bug him about letting him get on the turntables at The Roxy every Friday night. "The sound system at the Roxy was huge. It was the best," Kurtis remembers. Kurtis says that Roman played the record on a Friday, and the crowd loved it, leading to an offer to perform at the historic venue for a payment of $600.

"Remember I'm a kid basically, always bugging my mother for money, so $600 was a lot, and The Roxy was the place to be," he explains. "I could split half with MC Tee, and then buy some records. I can do whatever I want because I had some money. I could go to Danceteria and buy some drinks. They advertised on Kiss FM that this new group, Mantronix would be playing at The Roxy, and at this point Red and Chuck were playing it, and it was picking up steam. Even some of the daytime DJ's were playing it.

The Roland TR 909

"The 909 came out, and I was lucky to get early access to that," Kurtis explains. "I just loved technology. I didn't give a shit about dating girls or anything. I couldn't have a relationship or anything, because I just wanted to work on the machines, that was my thing. I lived above Sleeping Bag Records, the offices were downstairs and I was upstairs in this cool little penthouse area. I had all the gear and access to the roof, and I had all the technology. Everything.

I didn't know until many years later that 'Planet Rock' used the 808, but I wanted to sound more raw, and not as polished as 'Planet Rock'. I wanted my stuff to sound like it came right out of the machine. There was just a little bit of EQ, but not really processed at all.

When I got the 909 I started programming with that, and they both used the same programming ethos. I had this little sampler,an Akai thing with discs that I would sample onto, and I also figured out that I could midi the 909 and use it as a sequencer. "The 909 bass was nothing like the 808 though," Just-Ice interjects. "Nah, I'm not even talking about that,I'm moving on," Kurtis replies, again displaying the camaraderie that these two legends still share. Just then Just holds up his lit spliff and says, "It's this shit here."

"I figured out on the 909, there was a section you could program like midi, and that's how I programmed 'Bassline'. The midi parts are actually programmed on the 909, triggering the TB303, so I had them locked together. Then after that, the SP12 came. This is where it starts getting interesting.

I was friends with Richie Ash at Sam Ash, and he knew that I was into gear, and anything that came out he invited me to come check out. When the SP12 came out, I think this was the first one in New York City, and it was like four thousand dollars. I asked Will to buy it for me, and I kept bugging him. 'Fresh Is The Word' was doing well and money was coming in. I knew the SP could sample, but I didn't know what I was gonna do with it. You'd hook it up to a big Commodore 64 floppy disc drive, and that's how you'd save your sounds when you turned off the machine.

One day smoke came out of the back of this four thousand dollar machine. Apparently there was an issue with the connection between the disc drive and the SP. Sam Ash gave me a replacement, then it happened again. EMU Systems must have fixed the problem, and when I got the third one I started going wild. I didnt wanna touch the 808 anymore, and that's when we started on Just-Ice's album.

Cold Gettin' Dumb

"That's when you couldn't get 'Cold Gettin' Dumb' correct," Just adds. "The timing was off, and you were ready to dump the shit. I told you to let it go, and when it speeds up and slows down, I'll adjust. We tried it and you said that you didn't know that I could do that, and I told you that I can do anything. I remember clearly that I told you about 'Funky Music Is The Thing'. You said that you had it on a compilation, but I had the original. I still have my original copy by The Dynamic Corvettes." Kurtis explains that he was working on the late Joyce Sim's album, while Will was pressuring him to get going on Back To The Old School, Just's debut full length album.

"Cold Gettin Dumb II" was essentially the same backing track as the original, with new lyrics. Just -Ice even took a shot at Kurtis Blow, who had taken a shot at him on "Im Chillin" (You peazy head B-Boys got me upset/when you dissed Veronica and you dissed Evette/ I can't forget Latoya and The Real Roxanne/Can't you think of somethin' else/know what I'm sayin').

"The beat was so dope, I just wanted to keep it goin'," Just-Ice said of the track, which was used by Redman and K-Solo for "It's Like That (My Big Brother)" in 1996. "The beat was so damn dope, The beat is dope til this day. Me and Kurtis put a record out in 2019 called 'Get Your Drink On', it's' just a remix of 'Cold Gettin' Dumb'. That beat will never die. So many people that I meet, in and out of the industry tell me that they were just listening to 'Cold Gettin Dumb.'"

Bass Machine/Breaking Bells

Kurtis Mantronik eventually became A&R and basically house producer for Sleeping Bag/Fresh Records, producing hits for his own group Mantronix, Just-Ice, T La Rock, Nocera, Hanson & Davis, Joyce Sims, Tricky Tee, and 12:41. A string of hits for T La Rock included "Back To Burn" and "Bass Machine"/"Breaking Bells". 'Breaking Bells' is where I did all those triplets," Kurtis says of the song, which contained beat boxing by Greg Nice, and was the flip side of "Breaking Bells".

Mannie Fresh, the New Orleans producer who created mega hits for Cash Money Records has publicly credited Kurtis as an influence. On this year's Rock The Bells Cruise, he spoke specifically about the brilliance of "Bass Machine". "His drum rolls, triplets and the fact that he could produce Rap, R&B, and entire albums was incredible to me. 'Bass Machine' was phenomenal. It was the first time that someone turned the 808 into notes. That was phenomenal to me. It changed everything."

"Breaking Bells" was the Mantronik take on Bob James' foundational break beat, "Breaking Bells (Take Me To Mardis Gras)". In addition to being one of his best productions, he sampled the individual kicks and snares from the original song, and replayed them in a new sequence. This was an advanced production technique for 1986.

As for those who have publicly claimed to have produced "Bass Machine"/"Breaking Bells", Kurtis says that he produced the records that he is credited on (and some that he he didn't receive a credit for). "I confronted that person recently, and they denied making the public claim, but they've claimed it on Discogs, Wikipedia and other platforms," he explains. "I've heard about this for the last few years, and this person has never produced anything even remotely close to those records."

The Record Covers

"Needle To The Groove", "Back To The Old School", and the "Rap Pack" compilations contain incredible artwork, which has become as revered as the music itself. "Gnome and Mendel did the artwork on the covers and I only mey one of them once," says Just-Ice of the iconic artists. Just adds that the artist had no creative input as far as the artwork, and that he wasn't a fan of the work at first.

"I had nothing to do with that album cover (Back To The Old School), and when I first saw it, I was like who the hell is this? I don't look like this! We were busy in the studio, and it was the record company who commissioned them," Kurtis adds. "Looking at it now, the artwork is perfect, but I was fucked up in the head back then," Just continues. "I was on some different shit back then, I wasn't wit' no chick hangin' on my arm, and me carrying a radio."

Needle To The Groove

"Needle To The Groove" was the second single by Mantronix. It continued the tradition of Kurtis' incredible drum machine programming and scratching, and the vocoder hook provided by MC Tee was the icing on the already perfect cake. The vocoder bridge of the song was famously sampled for Beck's 1996 mega hit, "Where It's At".

Kurtis says that it took a decade for him to receive residuals for the sample. "The company that owned our song licensed it to Beck. When I left the music industry, I didn't listen to music for awhile, and I wasn't aware of the song, but people started telling me about it. 'Bassline' was used in Grand Theft Auto, and I had to go after them for that too.

Joyce Sims

The late Joyce Sims released two full length albums on Sleeping Bag Records. Her biggest hits were "Lifetime Love", "All In All" ,and "Come Into My Life", all produced my Mantronik, from her debut album, Come Into My Life. "I'm mostly a percussionist, but when I need something more elaborate, like when I did 'Come Into My Life' with Joyce Sims, I had a guitarist come in and play that whole Jazz riff because I wanted something different," Kurtis explains.

"For 'Come Into My Life' and 'All In All', the original producer was Robbie Watson. I had just finished 'Fresh Is The Word' and I was hangin' out with Will in his office going through tapes, and I came across Joyce, and he explained that they signed her, but that the music wasn't right. I told him that I could fix it, although I hadn't done a dance record at this point.

We went into INS studios, and I stripped everything away except her vocals, and replayed everything, just simple little bass patterns and stuff, and then I programmed the 808 over that. I basically rewrote all the music - not for 'Come Into My Life', but for 'All In All'."

The UK

Mantronik and his productions were immensely successful in the UK, with several exclusive UK mixes and alternate versions being produced and released. "I was on television shows, breakfast shows and actually being chased down the street over there, it was huge," he says. "In the states Mantronix was hardly known, but in the UK and Europe I was always on TV.

A&R

Before parting ways with Sleeping Bag in the late 1980's, Kurtis was responsible or the signing of the philly duo Cash Money and Marvelous to the label. For those who wonder why "Ugly People Be Quiet" sounds more like a Mantronik beat than a Hurby Luv track, it's because it is in fact a Mantronik beat. "Hurby came in later and turned a few knobs, but Mantronik did that beat," Cash Money told Rock The Bells.

"I gave Cash that beat, because I got him signed to the label, and I thought he was that good," Kurtis recalls. "He brought Marvelous in, and not too long after that the relationship between me and the label fell apart. Will gave me the title of A&R man because I was making all the records for Sleeping Bag and they wanted my opinion," he explained. "Will told me that he found this tape and that he wanted to sign these guys. I told Will that they sounded good, and that he should sign them. If Will felt that I wasn't ok with something musically, he wouldn't go with it."

King Of The Beats

In 1988 Mantronix released "Join Me Please" from their Capitol Records debut album In Full Effect. The b side of "Join me Please" contained a master class in sampling called "King of The Beats", which provided a few groups with the backing tracks for hit records. Concerning Snap's 1988 mega hit, "The Power" Kurtis shares that he didn't receive a royalty for the Snap sample that originated from "King Of The Beats".

"Basically I took 'Mardis Gras' from Bob James, and flipped it, so when they took [the flip] from me, I couldn't really say anything." Many have sampled that iconic foundational break by Bob James, but the Mantronik flip is perhaps the most innovative usage, and was definitely next level in 1988.

A Long Time

Kurtis Mantronik and Just-Ice are now performing and recording as Mantronix, and they've just released a new single, "A Long Time". "The new music is dope, and we are hoping that it will catch on," says Just-Ice. "Me and Schooly D are gonna do something, and I'm doing something with Greg Nice, which should be interesting because we have two totally different styles. I feel that anything that Kurtis makes is gonna be dope."

"There's no more MC Tee, it's just Mantronix and Just-Ice," Kurtis explains. We are going to be working together and doing shows as one unit moving forward. We are getting some shows in line for next year, and planning to go out and have fun like we used to."

Check out the new single below, and follow Mantronik on IG @mantronixofficial, and subscribe to his YouTube here. Follow Just-Ice on IG @justicebx07